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NINJA SALVAGING

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Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.07 20:03:00 - [1] Originally by: Kloiex I want to talk about the very irritating ninja salvaging.... In no way do i find it ok to salvage someones wrecks that they worked on and earned, salvaging someones wrecks should be an illegal act in high sec most of the money from missions comes from salvaging and for someone to be able to take you're profit away from you without you being able to atleast blast them into space dust is very irritating. Warning: It would be horrible to only give us kill right scause they could come in something better and bigger than us. Giving us kill rights would not stop this "bussiness" at all. [sarcasm]Glad to see that someone has finally brought the topic up.[/sarcasm] Seriously, this has been mentioned many times. The mechanic is working as intended - it's not your salvage. Go read one of the few hundred threads on the topic. Oh, IBTL.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.08 21:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Kel Nissa Quote: why aren't the mission runners scanning down other peoples' wrecks to salvage instead of bothering to run missions Pride, Frankness, Forthrightness, ... Foolishness Seriously, someone has to provide the wrecks.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.09 15:08:00 - [3] Edited by: Lear Hepburn on 09/06/2009 15:10:05 Originally by: Chi Quan Originally by: Ultranoia These kind of whines are mostly based on the flawed and narrow perspective of the mission monkey. ...as if a parasite like a ninja would understand its hosts perspective. utter rubbish. As if the dog would understand the flea's perspective. This goes both ways. Unless, of course, you've tried both... Originally by: Chi Quan EVERYTHING in an MMO is competitive, even without ninjas the mission runners would compete with the 0.0 folks and with each other. Explain to me exactly how mission-running is competetive. You get your mission and you run it - nobody else can take the reward or the LP away from you in the vast majority of cases (theft of mission-critical loot accepted) so long as you don't do anything stupid. How is a mission-runner competing with 0.0 folks when he's running missions in hisec? And it is hisec only we are talking about, as this is the only place the MR can't exact revenge on the ninja. Originally by: Chi Quan how about a forum filter? that would make those post go away 100%. and the suggestions you made, do NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, against the ninja. now to the details: Hire a salvager - how should payment be arranged? 1. thing you learn in eve is trust no one. You have nobody in eve you trust? That is sad, dude. How about an alt? Quote: Ask a corp mate to help you - yep, ask SWA to help you /no1 There are other corps out there - try a player corp. This is an MMO, after all. Quote: Salvage the wrecks yourself - and diminish your dps to the point where you can't break the rats tank. Rarely happens. In fact, you can fit a Raven with a salvager and a tractor beam and a full compliment of torps/cruise and still get 550+DPS with a range of 90km (sensor limited). It has 8 high slots and 6 missile bays. The Geddon has 7 turrets and 8 hi-slots, so fit a salvager; the Megathron is the same, and the Tempest has 8 hi slots and 6 turret slots. All of the races have a BS which allows good DPS and a salvager or salvager/tractor combo. Quote: Or use a marauder. What? you don't have the skills, gee 1 month of skill training is all it takes. No ISK for the ship? What have you been doing this month, didn't you salvage? Indeed, salvage using one of the fits I mentioned, or one of the other methods. Quote: CCP saying it's ok, is the ONE AND ONLY argument for your cause. Go hide behind them parasites. Parasites usually harm whoever they latch onto. It's more symbiotic - who do you think provides the materials that those rigs you have fitted to that mission ship of yours are made from? And I am yet to see an argument for the mission runner owning the wreckage which is yet to be debunked by CCP/common sense. Quote: that said, i urge every mission runner to blow up his wrecks when a ninja is near. having ninjas buying full halo sets out of ninjasalvage is ridiculous. Hey, if you want to pay more for your rigs then that's a good way to go. Increase the supply of salvage materials and you reduce the cost of rigs. Simple supply and demand.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.09 17:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Deryk Blacke With the introduction of salvaging, the number of ships with loot dropped. With the introduction of salvaging, the amount of time required to finish "looting" increased. And with the introduction of salvaging, a competetive element to mission running was introduced.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.09 17:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Gourdo Just a thought and idea. How about you just make it a flaggable offense until the mission is turned in. After all once the mission is turned in it is all over anyways and the pilot was paid. If the pilot wants to salvage his wrecks without risk of wrecks being stolen then he will have to do it while the mission is still active. Yes it may mean he might loose his bonus if it takes too long but then he has to weight the bonus reward over the potential of salvage value. It is extremely irritating when you are there fighting off the entire room and he comes some guy still your wrecks while you are still fighting. If it was a flaggable offense while the mission was still active then that mission runner would be able to defend his wrecks while he was still doing the mission. After the mission then the wrecks would be fair game. Of course this would also mean the loot in the wrecks would be fair game too. As for Ratting I would leave that as it is. No. You'd just leave the mission not turned in until you'd salvaged everything, meaning you could shoot anyone who comes along innocently salvaging. Here's a better idea: make wrecks scannable by probes. This would allow salvagers to scan for wrecks instead of missions, meaning that those who don't salvage their own missions would have their salvage discoverable for up to two hours after they leave. It also reduces the chances of a salvager turning up in an active mission.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.09 18:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Gourdo Originally by: Lear Hepburn Here's a better idea: make wrecks scannable by probes. wrecks are already scanable that is one of ways how the find the rooms that you have cleared and not it lol you're right - you've just made my salvaging even easier!
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.09 19:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Niko Lorenzio Originally by: Gourdo Just a thought and idea. How about you just make it a flaggable offense until the mission is turned in. If this is possible, I'm all for this. Sounds like a good idea No it isn't, because you'd just leave the mission not turned in until you'd salvaged everything, meaning you have effectively reserved the salvage for yourself. IF there was any form of temporary ownership, it should be time based, and short - maybe 10-15mins tops.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.09 20:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Kel Nissa Quote: Simple fix: move all kill missions out of hi-sec. Leads to the question: whats the purpose of hi-sec. Mining
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.10 05:46:00 - [9] Edited by: Lear Hepburn on 10/06/2009 05:46:30 Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash Ninja won't get agro'd by rats, [snip]. Zero risk. None. Incorrect. This can happen - it has happened to me. When it does happen you have to act fairly fast as salvagers typically are in small, tankless craft which are likely to get popped fast.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.10 17:43:00 - [10] Edited by: Lear Hepburn on 10/06/2009 17:44:43 Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash I'll have to take your word for it, I've yet to see rats target swap and attack the ninja. Not that I'm whining about Ninja's, as half the time they at least answer a convo and I use them as scouts for cap boosters (I'm usually just after the standings and/or look at the pretty explosions); which works in both out favours. I keep tanking, they keep looting. Other than the one that gave the RAWR response and was prompty pop'd by a LCO detonating like a SB.... Gave me a bit of a shock when it happened too! I suspect that most ninjas will respond to a convo, and may even offer to split any loot as you go along if you fleet up and share bounty as well. A nasty few may either tell you where to go (so I would blow up the salvage if I were you) or may even take the fleet offer and then try to leave without giving you any cash for the salvage - I'd consider a wardec for those evil buggers, and maybe even posting about them in C&P as a new scam. Quote: Have you see the captains head on a Raven? Dear god, the Caldari build some fine ships but creature comforts are not part of the spec. I'll go emorage in the station facilites thank you very much. I've been to low sec. I have no balls to drop. I'm not worried about it (see above). But what's the big attraction of low sec? 0.0 I can somewhat understand... low sec needs fiddling with IMHO. Lowsec/0.0 - either way you get to pop the ninja if that is your wish. I realise not everyone wants to do so, but for those that do, head that way.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.10 17:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash If salvaging as a mechanic is fine. Why then good sir are there so many threads about it? Indeed if there is nothing to be tweaked or fixed then why have you posted in support of a ship with a role bonus to salvaging? Obviously something is missing and/or wrong. That requires an unfortunate dialouge between the two biggest, mutual enemies of EVE: PvE and PvP players in order to reach a mutually agreeable solution. There are many threads about it because this does bring so-called PvE players into conflict with PvP players. I say "so-called" because this is an MMO - there is no such thing as pure PvE in Eve. The PvE players don't like that the PvP players can ruin (take part) in their (in everyone's) game and they feel that the PvP players are stealing (taking) their (anyone's) salvage. I feel this is a misconception from the so-called PvE community of Eve. Quote: I would also point out that if you need a CovOps ship (with or without rigs) to find a mission runner then you are doing it exceptionally wrong. A T1 frigate can do it just as fast if the person running the probes has sufficient skill and experience. True, but the CovOps bonuses make it faster and easier and also allow you to cloak on entry, reducing the chance of you getting aggro from an unaggroed group (assuming you stay outside 2km).
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:03:00 - [12] Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash It is worth keeping in mind that a great many people are not used to the concept of MMO's or they've played one with "private instancing" as opposed to EVE's oddbod "public instancing" system. Yes I have had one new player wonder if the people in corp chat are, in fact, humans. And yes I've had to deal with more than one WoW player getting upset over the differences in instancing. Now, perhaps as part of the improved new player experience we need to explain these differences somehow. Because quite frankly I can't probe down every non-ALT FNAer in order to demonstrate this. Remove the mindset of "my mission" and you also loose "my slavage". All very true, but it is also worth remembering that this is Eve, not other MMOs. Ninja salvaging is a recognised game mechanic and those of us who do it will continue to do so until CCP say it's not possible.
Lear Hepburn Caldari Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Transcendent	Posted - 2009.06.11 06:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Kel Nissa And its also worth to remember that the conflict occours in highsec which is meant to protect carebears / newcomers. Protect to a degree. Hisec is not totally secure, or some sort of PvE zone, nor should it be.

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